Or, stories from my Sister Christian. 😋
So today’s Bible porn story is about Tamar, who married a male, who died, then she got fucked by his brother, who also died, then she tricked her father in law into fucking her, you know, like us slutty, tricky women always do, tricking innocent males into fucking us because they are so stupid and we are so sexy tricky.
This story is found in genesis chapter 38, it’s got god killing males, prostitution, identity hiding veils, babies sticking their hands out of birth canals, only to pull them back in, goats, and sheep shearing, it’s got everything, let’s go…….
So god kills Tamar’s first husband for whatever reason, and Judah (her father in law) tells his next son to fuck her to impregnate her, and they were going to pretend those children were the dead husband’s kids. But Onan pulls out and “spills his semen on the ground”.
And then god kills him.
For spilling his semen. On the ground.
Why did god stop killing dudes for ejaculating into socks? Is anyone else disappointed that this isn’t still a thing? Can’t be just me.
So Judah tells Tamar that she can have be given to his remaining son, when he is old enough, but while we all are waiting on this little boy to grow up, Judah tells her to move into his house, with him.
Judah’s wife then dies, so of course, he takes off with his boyfriend to shear some sheep, somewhere far, far away. So Tamar is irritated because even though the youngest son has grown up, she still hasn’t been GIVEN TO HIM in marriage.
So Tamar does what so many of us would do.
She puts on the trickiest of all costumes, a veil, and pretends to be a prostitute to trick Judah into fucking her………..
See, here is where I have so many questions.
It’s a VEIL. Was Judah blind? Was he drunk? Or just regular old male stupid?
Wasn’t he supposed to be grief driven sheep shearing?
And where is he getting this goat? Why does he think that a goat decent payment for raping a woman?
No male has ever offered me a goat for any reason. I would totally take a goat. Should I be offended?
So Tamar wants some collateral to hold onto until she gets the goat, so he gives her a stick and some other things that belong to him…..
…..and if this were a real thing that happened, we all know Tamar would die before getting that goat. Anyone who has ever lent money to a male knows this. Males don’t pay debts owed to women.
So time passes and Judah sends his sheep shearing partner to find the “prostitute” in order to give her a goat to get his stick back. His boyfriend returns with the goat and no stick, at which time Judah says that he doesn’t Really care about getting his stick back, after all, he can get a stick pretty much anywhere, and then he says that he thinks his boyfriends will laugh at him, for some reason……..
……Judah manages to pick up the pieces of his life and go on, without his stick, when some boyfriends of his find out that Tamar is pregnant and tell him about it. So Judah, being pure and blameless and sinless and all, tells them that he is going to have Tamar burned for fucking, at which time she presents him with his stick! Which he recognizes!
It’s lucky that the stick wasn’t wearing a veil because had the stick been wearing a veil, he wouldn’t have been able to recognize it. A veil totally changes the look and identity of whatever it is on. Veils make everything and everyone unrecognizable to the male eyeballs.
He says that Tamar is righteous and claims that he never attempted to rape her again. Maybe he didn’t want to part with his special stick or his last goat? Anyway, She eventually goes into labor, and then this totally happened….
Perhaps the babies had a bet on who could get the first high five from the midwife. Or maybe the guy who wrote this bullshit thought the vaginal canals are like a runway or a slip and slide, where the baby just walks on out, and has the room and the ability to shove to the front of the line, when there is more than one baby.
My sister gets low-key offended at my atheist interpretation of these stories, because it’s so obvious to me that some male made this shit up. Women don’t act like this. This is how males claim that we act.
And these stories show what this patriarchal invented god thinks of women.
No, thank you.🤏
Jayne 😉
RadFemSpiraling 
I am worried that the Christian right will start embracing the operations to “undo the mistakes of heaven” if the Gender Ideology goes unchallenged, where the stance on same sex attraction remains staunchly negative. When that father in Oklahoma or thereabouts testified before the state assembly that he had “seen the light” and is for boys on girls sports teams and growing up to woman face if it means they will later marry “their opposite sex”. I find it irksome and terrifying that the stultifying sex stereotypes within those same religious cultures are often what the child can’t deal with, causing identity confusion. Good night, my dears~
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jfc, I didn’t know about this. I know many Christians are trying to be super woke and ‘accepting’ of trans ideology to make up for past prejudice against gays and lesbians (I think that’s what is going on). But this is a terrible prospect. Born again Christians are unhelpful, to say the least, with their literal approach to all things biblical. Although I’m confused by the ‘mistakes of heaven’ bit. If your approach to the scriptures is literal wouldn’t you assume that god could never make a mistake? Can’t get my head around any of this.
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You are so right! I do not understand how the Gender Ideology has wormed its way past the Evangelicals beliefs in the “all knowing God”. What happened to Genesis, “We are created in the image of God” ? Perhaps the reason is their intractable stance on women’s roles? They care so much about preserving sex stereotypes and oppressing women that men who want to be us are just fine with them. And what strange bedfellows they make with the lefties who kowtow to the same nonsense about mascare+dress=woman, a “real” woman. When I have mentioned my situation on, say Ben Shapiro or Matt Walsh, (to get female viewers to take a look at You’re Kiddin’, Right? channel) I often get these nasty MRA replies, telling me I knew about it when I married, it’s all my fault for letting it happen, and why didn’t I find a “good dad” for my kids after? I then delete my comment so that toxic verbiage goes away. But, no, I had no idea when I married him, I did not “tolerate cross-dress date night” or any other nonsense. If my own family hadn’t been so super Lutheran and anti-divorce, I might have been able to get out earlier, but I had very little support. You have a great community, Radfemspiraling! See you on Karen Davis’ comments!
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Atleast in our circles, Tamar isn’t seen as manipulative at all – she is honored as the one who paved the way for Christ’s birth. She in a foremother of Christ. Her actions are seen as ones that were executing God’s plan. She also has the honor of being the 1st woman mentioned in the New Testament – right near the top of the 1st chapter of Mathew.
The next woman mentioned is Rahab – the woman from Jericho who was an inn-keeper. They say she was a “prostitute”, but the _old_ NIV footnote says that the word could mean either “inn-keeper” or “prostitute”. When males are given an option of making a frontline female character a businesswoman or a prostituted woman, it is an easy guess which one they’d choose. The translators – must have been mostly male if not all male – picked their fav option. They most certainly don’t want women reading examples of smart businesswomen in the Bible. And you know what more? I just found that the newer NIV version does NOT have that “inn-keeper” footnote! They removed even that half-hearted admission of the truth.. And the older versions (1984 or earlier) of NIV are COMPLETELY out of print. You can’t find them in any book store. And on the web, there is exactly one copy of the 1984 print. (https://www.studylight.org/study-desk.html?q1=Joshua+2&q2=&ss=0&t1=eng_n84&t2=eng_kjv&t3=eng_nas&ns=0&ot=bhs&nt=na26&b=chapter&d=3 – click on “Options” and select “Show Footnotes”). Every other site hosts the 1985 or newer version.
Anyway, coming back to Tamar: Even before I came across the scholar’s commentary about her executing God’s plans, I never saw her actions as manipulative by any stretch. In her time, the *only* insurance allowed to women was a male child. A male child would earn & hopefully feed her after her husband is dead. Without a male child, she’d be doomed, because she had no other way of surviving at all – except seeking alms perhaps, and hoping the men who might give her alms won’t demand her body in return. She was pushed by the system to have a son at any cost. But now all hopes for that were gone, so she held her nose & went ahead with a bold plan, but did so *extremely* wisely. Knowing that she’d be burned if she dared to get pregnant, she picked the man she’d get pregnant with very smartly. She picked the very man who’d have the final word on her judgement, so that he could be checkmated. And she cleverly got him to hand over his identifying seal & staff, so that she has irrefutable proof. These aren’t “manipulative” – these are the desperate (yet ingeniously failure-proofed) steps taken to insure her basic SURVIVAL (a male child, at that time) in a cruel system which subjects her to subhuman treatment & misery if she doesn’t have a son.
You mentioned you are planning a piece on Lot’s daughters. I’m excited – I have a lot of thoughts on Lot’s daughters – about grooming [of little girls], and Lot’s activities which *very clearly* groomed and doomed his daughters.
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I always look forward to seeing your take on biblical things. I enjoy my sister’s take, too, even though I know I irritate her, lol.
Of course, males insert their own bias into everything. That’s one of my points of contention with my sister. She thinks that every word of the Bible and it’s interpretation(s) are straight from the mouth of her god.
I do think that it is really interesting, and my sister pointed this out to me, just like you did, that Tamar is in the direct line of Jesus.
And from my secular view, I also take Tamar as being bold and gutsy. I absolutely see your point and agree, that she was doing what she had to do to survive and get by in a hostile, penis centered world. I mean, it’s gross, and it’s unfair. But I still see women having to do gross, unfair things to survive, all of the time.
The NIV leaving out the note about “Inn keeper” and “prostitute” is not surprising, is it. I have read several places that the word “feet” as has been translated in places in the Bible can also be translated as “penis”. I am going to tell that to my sister, one day, I am sitting on it, for now.
This one conversation ended with me saying that I was kind of waiting for her to break up with me because of my heathen, atheist views. And she replied that she couldn’t break up with me, that her religion won’t let her.
Then we both laughed. And went on to talk about boots.
Yeah, I am going to write about lot’s daughters in the next day, or 2, maybe by tomorrow. There’s a things that really sticks out in that conversation, about lot’s daughters, with Christians in the states. I will want to hear your thoughts.
I am always glad to see you, Fire.💙
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XO. Your sister is nice. I’m sure she’ll never break up with you:)
Take your time for writing the next post sis. We’ll wait:) It must be tiring dealing with horrible contractors, and managing everything on your own. Take care!
PS: I didn’t share my thoughts on Lot’s daughters as I didn’t want to influence or redirect your ideas. So I was (eagerly) holding back till you posted yours. Please let me know if you want to hear them before that – I’ll share them:)
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These stories are allegorical tales from antiquity. The context is often female trickery. Males have always been confused by the attraction they have towards the female form and the effect it has on them, how they lose control. What does your sister say about Judith slaying Holofernes? Here and there in the Bible there are glimmers of the power of womanhood, as in the midwives who saved Hebrew babies in Exodus. In the context of the Bible, women were property. It’s no use to read it literally. The Song of Songs has some sweet references to romantic love. Tamar actually proves something with a ring she took from Judah, because he didn’t recognize her as anything but a prostitute. She showed the ring publicly to prove his lie. Close that book, I say. Go back to Andrea Dworkin. Just a thought.
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Hail, Ute the Banned
I love your response and think it’s thoughtful and helpful. That said, I can see RadFem’s point, as well. Plus her take on the story is hilarious and has had me cackling like a mad hyena.
I wanted to understand Tamar a bit more and had a look at the Jewish Women’s Archive (I’m not Jewish, btw) but wasn’t really getting anywhere. But then I came across this abstract. Haven’t been able to access the full article and don’t have the energy to do so. But I like this idea of Tamar being understood in the Trickster tradition. The article is by Melissa Jackson (no idea if she is Jewish). Journal is called ‘Journal for the Study of the Old Testament’ June 2002.
I would expect an academic journal in 2002 to be using ‘Hebrew Scriptures’ or at least ‘Jewish Bible’ rather than ‘Old Testament’ but, hey …
Anyway, I’m including the abstract cos I think this is quite an interesting idea.
“This article examines two Genesis narratives—the stories of Lot’s daughters (19.30-38) and Tamar (ch. 38). The female characters in these stories are tricksters, characters of low status who improve their situation through use of their wit and cunning. Comparing elements of the trickster narrative with elements of the comic reveals the trickster genre to be a comic one. Therefore, these narratives may be interpreted comically, a perspective that challenges some feminist biblical scholarship. Comedy’s function is escapism that offers a transcendent glimpse into another reality. In viewing these narratives through the subversive comic lens, the reader may see a new inverted reality where there are no tricksters, because there are no underdogs.”
(Melissa Jackson, 2002)
I especially loved this sentence so I’m repeating it.
“Therefore, these narratives may be interpreted comically, a perspective that challenges some feminist biblical scholarship.”
I have no idea whether this approach amounts to letting men off the hook again. That’ll just give me a headache. But I think this is an interesting take on the whole thing.
OTOH, as you say, just read more Andrea Dworkin. That’s always a good move.
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Lot’s daughters are the subject of my next Bible porn post, coming soon! There is an interesting aspect to that story, when Christians talk about it, that’s near universal.
Anyway, I am familiar with the trickster narrative, I learned it from watching 15 seasons of the show, Supernatural. It’s an interesting theory.
When I was researching Tamar, I found somewhere (it might have been her Wikipedia page) that in Jewish folklore, she is considered to be cursed, which I interpret to mean that males kept dying after fucking her as being her fault, somehow. Which is so male, it’s almost as male as ignorance and cigars.
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The story of Tamar is actually about what is known as Levirate marriage. This meant that when a man died, rather than the widow being sold into slavery or having to prostitute herself (as she might be seen as bad luck, her husband died) she gets to marry her husband’s brother, in a time of polygamy. I am a convert to Judaism and a bit off the derech (off the track, in Brooklyn-speak, meaning no longer keep the Sabbath or keep kosher) but I studied quite a lot. Like the story of Ruth, who went to lie at the feet of her husband’s male relative after her husband died, it had to do with the mens’ responsibilities to the widow and her children. We have to read these sagas in the context of their time. Servitude, polygamy, maternal death, infant mortality, which god is the one who will find me worthy? Tamar, in Jewish tradition (the name means date, the fruit, in Hebrew) was gutsy. She set Judah up, because he was avoiding his responsibilities to her as a double widow. Thus ends the sermon of the day. Blessed be the daughters.
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While I enjoy your response, it would not be popular with Christians in the states. Especially, my sister. She is Especially devout.
The Bible is obviously the Big Book of ManThings that Never Happened (and are conveyed stupidly), and every word is taken literally.
I don’t know any atheists in real life. I live in a very Christian state. The women that I know don’t seem to mind me. But they all try to convert me. Which does get exhausting. But it’s also kind of funny. Which is what gets me through.
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Please see my response above before you start in on Lot’s daughters. The story of Lot is an allegory against inebriation and incest. The best way to understand any of the Hebrew texts is to ask, what questions does it answer? That is the purpose the story serves? Tell your sister you are communicating with a woman who is a Hebrew scholar, and she doesn’t understand that the Pentateuch, the 5 Books (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, to use the Greek names from the Christian Bible) are winnowed from many ancient texts (send her off researching the Dead Sea scrolls, mostly texts that didn’t make the cut) and that even Orthodox Jews do not follow the laws exactly. It is not possible. Because this year is the 49th year, Shmietah, when all bonds are to be broken, land is to be let fallow, slaves are to be freed. Amen, sermon of the day is over. Blessed be the daughters, even your sister, who seeks certainty in an uncertain world. In my Sound of Music Maria kneeling by the bed prayer, especially Radfemspiraling, who takes after Judith, the one who murdered the evil Holofernes! ooxoo, Ute
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With all due respect to you, and I hope you know that I appreciate both your viewpoint and your credentials, my sister would not.
Her worldview is very much that you are choosing the devil if you refuse to choose her god. I have had so much Christianity force fed to me, for most of my life, I used to get really annoyed at it, and I still do, sometimes.
But my sister has some unusual takes, at least, for our religious culture. And most times, she converses WITH me, instead of preaching AT ME, which she does do, occasionally, and I just try to roll with it.
But she is definitely not open to differing opinions. Fire, a regular commenter here, wrote an excellent comment a while back about something biblical, I sent a copy to my sister, via text, hoping she would readit and tell me her thoughts. She read enough to see it didn’t fit her worldview so she refused to read it, giving me some vague biblical reference about not reading dissenting views because it jeopardizes her soul, or something.
So. Not exactly open minded, lol.
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I know I’m supposed to see Tamar as gutsy but it doesn’t really work for me. I think that’s how I’m meant to understand Ruth, as well. My understanding of the story of Tamar is that it is exploring issues of justice and power and Tamar is trying to deal with the injustice of her situation. I’m not the best person to tangle with any of these ancient scriptures. On the one hand, we’re supposed to treat them only as allegories but then we also have to acknowledge the historical basis for the stories and also find the psychological truth in them. The historical truth, as you said in your earlier post, is that women were always the property of a man. And that’s all I can see in these ancient stories. They just always do my head in.
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I understand that.
This is why I consider women blameless in prostitution, even if they “choose” it. Tamar, real or fiction, was just another woman doing what she had to do to survive.
Most times, I do see bravery in that. I likely would choose death, if death and prostitution were my only “choices”.
It’s not stated outright, but the impression that I get of Tamar is that she is courageous and strong.
But I readily admit that my own bias towards women colors that interpretation.
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I just can’t read books from males anymore. Bibel included. Everything only seems to rotate on their behalf and their dicks of course. So boring and utter nonsense. Men must live in a small small world. A world rotating around their small dicks.
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I can tell, I make my sister angry when she is talking about the Bible, but she brings it up? Well, I am ready to discuss (most days).
I can’t pretend it’s not stupid. Our conversations about abortion are really hilarious. They always end in her saying something along the lines of how some people just hate children. And we both know that she is talking about me, lol.
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LOL true. Even if there is only one baby, if it puts out a HAND first, that’s a medical emergency. With two babies and no technology, even the best midwife in the world would be panicking too hard to think to find a piece of string to tie around the wrist. Source: One of my babies was born butt-first and it was a little bit tense for a little while.
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I laugh through these stories, lol, what world are males living in, lol.
My sister is all “no, no, no, you just don’t understand the power of the lord”, and maybe I don’t, but I do have a rudimentary understanding of how vaginas work, for fucks sake, lol.
And if god is using his power to enable boy babies to wave from a vagina before deciding to stay a while longer, or let someone else come out first, then maybe he should utilize that power to do something that is not so fucking stupid.
I have always wondered why it’s dangerous for babies to birth feet first. But enough women have told me that it is both dangerous and painful, so I know it’s true. I am sorry one of your births was that way, I assume it was the first? I am happy you and your daughter survived and are healthy.
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Yes, it was the first. Babies are “supposed” to be born head first because the head is large, hard, and heavy, so the pressure from the head opens up the cervix and vagina to allow the shoulders, then the rest of the baby’s body, to slide through. My baby was born BUTT first, which is second choice because the butt is also sort of large and heavy…but there is a risk of the oxygen supply getting cut off if the birth doesn’t go fast. My baby’s birth went VERY fast so there was never a problem for the baby, although I took a long time to recover. Feet first is SUPER dangerous because the feet don’t really open up the cervix, so there is a high likelihood of the birth stalling and the oxygen getting cut off. I mean, sure, it’s POSSIBLE for the baby to still come out fine, but I definitely would have been referred for a C-section if that had been the case. Actually, even with the butt-first presentation, I had one of the only doctors in North America willing to go for it. I’m glad I did it because it’s a cool story to get to tell 🙂
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That definitely is a cool story to tell, you are correct. It is equal parts horrifying and courageous, well done.
And I sincerely did not know that butt first was something that actually happens, this is the first time I have heard that.
I have always been terrified of the thought of giving birth, even though I have never done it, even though I have (presumably) been capable of doing it.
In this same conversation (about Tamar) with my sister, she kept saying that it was 50/50 between males and women, that pregnancy, childbirth and parenting are all 50/50. I was laughing and I am like “no, childbirth is not 50% male, how are you doing that math”, and her response was BUT MALES LOVE THEIR CHILDREN, TOO, THO, themen themen, THEMEEEENNNNN, and I asked her how many males die in childbirth.
And she said I wasn’t being fair.
To the MENZ, lol.
So once again, the reality is uncomfortable for the males. So we must pretend that a woman giving birth is 100% equal to the “father” eating a sandwich and watching cartoons while “his” woman is facing death, birthing “his” children.
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